I’ve been doing a little reading about Islam while I’ve been here. It’s been a little frustrating trying to learn about it in Yemen, nobody I talk to seems to have any more than a superficial understanding of their religion. Worse, they have zero experience with other religions, that makes it particularly difficult to converse or to find common ground.
I was reduced to picking up a copy of “Islam for Dummies,” Don’t laugh, it’s a decent enough introduction. I’ve also bought some books on Sufis and another on the various sects and divisions. I’ve learned a few interesting things…
Muslims see Jesus as a very important prophet, but not divine. This I knew and I though was one of the basic differences between Muslims and Christians. Muslims do believe in Jesus’ virgin birth, that caught me by surprise. They hold Mary in very high regard (she is supposedly one of the three “purest” women of history), that too surprised me a bit. Here’s the thing, with just a few questions about the virgin birth, things get pretty murky pretty fast.
If you accept the idea of Jesus’ virgin birth, it leads to some tricky issues regarding His paternity. If Mary was a virgin, then who impregnated her? She couldn’t do it herself obviously, it must have been God. It doesn’t seem like too much of a stretch to then consider God as the father of Jesus, or to put it another way, that Jesus was the son of God. I’m not quite sure how muslims wriggle out of this, it would seem to me that you either believe that Mary was not a virgin or you believe that Jesus was the son of God. What other choices are there?
I was also struck by the seeming silliness of the basic Sunni/Shia divide. The Shia believe that only members of the prophet’s family should be Caliph, specifically, only descendants of the prophet’s nephew Ali should be Caliph. OK, fair enough, but there are two problems with this. First, Ali’s decedents died out 10 generations after Ali. Many Shia get around this by claiming the existence of a “hidden” imam. The story with 12ver shia that the 11th “correct” caliph had a son disappear when he was 4 years old. That son is still alive and will return at the end times. Seems to be a bit of a stretch and a bit of a cop out made just to keep the shia way of doing things relevant. I dunno, it sounds weird to me.
The bigger problem with the Shia/Sunni split is that there hasn’t been a caliphate since 1924, and even then it wasn’t regarded by many muslims as being a true caliphate. Since then, the muslim world has gone very far away from a unified view of things and the chances of a new caliphate coming along to unify things is zero. So why still fight over whether or not Ali and his decedents were the right caliph all those years ago? It’s puzzling to me, and I need to do some more reading to try to understand why this is still considered important long after the disputed title has faded into history.
I plan on getting most of the way through my sects book on the flight to Doha, I hope to have a better idea of things and be able to do some more intelligent research this time around in Yemen.
4 replies on “Reading about Islam”
I’m not quite sure how muslims wriggle out of this, it would seem to me that you either believe that Mary was not a virgin or you believe that Jesus was the son of God. What other choices are there?
As the Qur’an points out, both Jesus and Adam (pbut) have similar natures in that Allah (swt) created each without human fathers:
“The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: ‘Be.’ And he was.” (3:59)
However, that doesn’t mean that both men were “sons of God” (astaghfirullah). The nature of Allah (swt) is such that He is above having a son. There are various Qur’anic ayat that stress this point; here are two:
“O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not ‘Trinity’: desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.” (4:171)
“Say: He is Allah, the One! Allah, the eternally Besought of all! He begetteth not nor was begotten. And there is none comparable unto Him.” (112:1-4)
OK, but it still seems to me that this is a matter of semantics. There isn’t a Christian alive that thinks that God had sex with Mary, or that there was some sort of Holy sperm that was deposited into her. He made Jesus in her womb, it was a miracle. But unlike Adam, Jesus had a mother, it seems only natural to wonder who the father was. To say that God was Jesus’ father is simply to say that God made Jesus. What else could it mean? The “nature of Allah” is beyond human comprehension, are you saying that there is something that He cannot do?
The idea that Jesus was created in a virgin by God is agreed on by both religions. Neither believes that sex was involved (like the Greek myths with Zeus becoming a bull or some other such nonsense). The designation of “The son of God” by Christians does not in any way equate how Jesus was formed to another, regular person, it just suggests that there was no human father.
Why must “son” be taken so literally? Why is it so weird to think that people would assume to call God the “father” of Jesus? There are clear theological explanations for this, but I’m looking for a logical reason not to assume that God is indeed the father if Mary was indeed a virgin…
The “nature of Allah” is beyond human comprehension, are you saying that there is something that He cannot do?
You’ve hit the nail on the head, but obliquely. Muslims agree that Allah (swt) is beyond human comprehension. That is, in fact, why Muslims interpret the Qur’an in this way. Yesterday, I quoted from verse 4:171: “…(far exalted is He) above having a son.” His nature is not our nature. We are flesh-and-blood; He, to the best of our knowledge, is not. To say that Allah (swt) has sons (men, humanity) or daughters (angels, as was claimed by the polytheist Arabs prior to Muhammad (pbuh)) is to demean Allah (swt), to lower Him to our level, which is not possible.
The designation of “The son of God” by Christians does not in any way equate how Jesus was formed to another, regular person, it just suggests that there was no human father.
But that’s not true, and I think you know that. Most Christians are trinitarians, and they believe that Jesus (pbuh) is the second of three gods within one (astaghfirullah). You have to understand, Muslims are strict monotheists, and we attach no thing, no person to Allah (swt). To do so is shirk, the one unforgivable sin. Christians and Jews have both used the phrase “son of God,” albeit in different contexts. For the Jews, a “son of God” is a righteous person, and a number of people are named “sons of God” in the Old Testament. Christians, of course, refer to Jesus (pbuh) as the “son of God.” The Qur’an says (paraphrasing), in two separate verses, “don’t use this phrase.” Don’t associate any person in word, let alone worship, with Allah (swt). Which is why I often say “astaghfirullah” to myself when I hear someone refer to someone else as “the god of x” or “she’s a goddess.” Astaghfirullah. These people don’t know better, but this sort of statement should never be made, even in jest.
Why must “son” be taken so literally? Why is it so weird to think that people would assume to call God the “father” of Jesus?
Because they do; Christians take the statement “Jesus is the son of God” (astaghfirullah) literally.
There are clear theological explanations for this, but I’m looking for a logical reason not to assume that God is indeed the father if Mary was indeed a virgin…
Why not consider that Jesus and Adam (pbut) do not have fathers, period. Think about it. If you accept that Jesus (pbuh) was born of a virgin birth, that no man provided sperm to the embryo, then how did Jesus (pbuh) become a male? Scientifically, you could combine the dna of two women to form a third woman (one “X” chromosome from each to form another woman (double X)). To have a male requires a “Y” chromosome. So where did Jesus’ (pbuh) Y chromosome come from? Either Jesus (pbuh) had a human father, who contributed the Y chromosome, which isn’t accepted by either religion, or it’s a miracle. I accept the Qur’an’s version.
I had asked if there was something that God could not do and you responded, “To say that Allah (swt) has sons (men, humanity) or daughters (angels, as was claimed by the polytheist Arabs prior to Muhammad (pbuh)) is to demean Allah (swt), to lower Him to our level, which is not possible.”, which isn’t an answer. God is capable of all things, to deny this is the very definition of blasphemy. I’m not going to say that God can’t do something, are you?
The trinity is a difficult concept, but it is certainly not, “Three gods in one…” The trinity is three different aspects of ONE (and the only) God. It would alkin to seeing three different views of a building, maybe the roof, a sink inside, and the exterior wall, but only seeing through a 4 inch square from 7 inches away. There is only one building, but we see three different aspects of it. With those really limited views, we could never know with any certainty the actual building in its totality…
Once again, the term “Son of God” makes sense when there is a human mother and no human father. Jesus wasn’t just a creation like Adam, he grew in Mary’s womb. The way most people’s minds work (and I’m willing to bet the vast majority when this event occurred) it is a natural conclusion to make. If Jesus isn’t the son of God, why did God use a woman to bring Him into the world? Why not make Him like he did Adam? The Christians have an entire theology to explain this, and it isn’t that hard to swallow (if a virgin birth isn’t difficult enough to swallow…)
I agree, it’s a miracle, but the Qran’s version doesn’t make too much sense to me, it leaves too many questions unanswered. Honestly, I’ve never thought too much about the virgin birth thing, it isn’t all that important to my faith, but I do find the Qran’s version puzzling.
I am not going to publish any more comments that simply quote the Qran, they have less than no impact on people that do not believe in that book. My take on the Qran’s version is that Jesus is not the son of God and that his virgin birth was a miracle, but nothing beyond that. I find the denial of the virgin birth to make much more sense if the claim is that Jesus was “just” a prophet. What I’m looking for is a reason for a virgin birth if He is not the son of God, what would it accomplish otherwise?